tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post6561260874194450288..comments2023-09-11T08:58:24.710-06:00Comments on Reach Upward: Public Funding of CircusesScott Hinrichshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-52260746997139175492007-03-07T13:00:00.000-07:002007-03-07T13:00:00.000-07:00Scott et al,I wrote about Larry Miller's public fu...Scott et al,<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://economicspolitics.blogspot.com/2007/02/report-from-utah-house-soccer-committee.html" REL="nofollow">I wrote about Larry Miller's public funding here.</A> If I understand it correctly, there is more than a nuance between Larry Miller's public funding and Dave Checketts' public funding. Here's the pertinent snippet from the above link:<BR/><BR/><I><BR/> Larry H. Miller received NO public funding for his $80 million motor sports park in Tooele, and five years remains to pay off the $20 million in Redevelopment Agency funds he received to finance the Delta Center. Dave Checketts, on the other hand, is not on the hook for even a dime of his $35 million.<BR/></I>Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-85285366232549798182007-02-12T10:16:00.000-07:002007-02-12T10:16:00.000-07:00AW, thanks for your comments. I can respect the v...AW, thanks for your comments. I can respect the view of this being an alternative form of tourism advertising. As to whether it turns out to be a worthy investment or not, only time will tell.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-84436841493776475382007-02-09T17:45:00.000-07:002007-02-09T17:45:00.000-07:00Hi Reach Upward,I respect your position, and I do ...Hi Reach Upward,<BR/><BR/>I respect your position, and I do not fault you for it.<BR/><BR/>I think that we both would prefer to see generally smaller and more limited government. This is so, because we probably both know that once a freedom is lost to government, it is very difficult to get it back, so it is best not to relinquish that freedom in the first place. One of the best ways to do that is to keep government small--less taxes, less programs, less power. I get it.<BR/><BR/>But, as I said, it comes down to finding the right balance, because having too small of a government can also be dangerous.<BR/><BR/>With respect to the "common good" that I referenced on the Senate Site, I did not go into what that was exactly because I had already done so on SLCSPIN, and I just didn't want to get into it again.<BR/><BR/>But, here is one of my key arguments: Because I am a sports fan, I think I understand how much publicity and good will are generated for a community with professional sports franchises. It is literally incalculable.<BR/><BR/>Our state government spends millions of dollars to encourage tourism and economic development in Utah. And, it works. We all benefit from it, even though most of us do not know what the government has been doing.<BR/><BR/>Real Salt Lake provides a function that effectively synergizes with the states other efforts. It powerfully, and almost constantly, reinforces the Salt Lake and Utah brands.<BR/><BR/>It encourages tourism. It makes our community more attractive to business looking to relocate to Utah. It helps unify an often divided community. It helps us form stronger connections to other league cities and Madrid, Spain. It encourages other related businesses to develop in the area. It expands the tax base. The list goes on and on.<BR/><BR/>When all of this is taken into consideration, the 35 million dollars seems like a very small and reasonable investment.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I'm kind of burned out on the subject now, so I won't burden you further. But, thanks for quoting me, I was honored to have appeared in such a great blog as Reach Upward. (You are one of my favorites.)<BR/><BR/>Sincerely,<BR/>Alienated WannabeAlienated Wannabehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18071891929227199278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-26807070666045687862007-02-07T15:23:00.000-07:002007-02-07T15:23:00.000-07:00DL, I agree with this moral distinction. I have d...DL, I agree with this moral distinction. I have difficulty coming to terms with this being the kind of thing government should do.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-78329597232577987542007-02-07T15:18:00.000-07:002007-02-07T15:18:00.000-07:00While Mr. Wannabe's response was helpful in unders...While Mr. Wannabe's response was helpful in understanding his political philosophy, the key sentence is "I am convinced that it will produce benefits for our state that are just as vital to the common good as schools and highways."<br /><br />I can certainly understand that the education of Utah's children is a common good, and that providing a safe and efficient transportation system is a common good, why does a sports stadium qualify? <br /><br />Certainly one could make a case that there could be economic benefits to the locality from events in the stadium, but should the government be in the position of funding private ventures for which there might be economic benefit? In that case, how about bribing a corporation to locate a major manufacturing plant in the SLC suburbs? The benefits of such a deal would far outweigh the benefit of a sports stadium. Should government do that? <br /><br />Schools and highways <b>are</b> common goods and they are owned and operated by the people through their government. We don't construct a school building then lease it out to a private company to run the school with no oversight and no guarantees. That would be foolish and so is this stadium idea.Charles Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02975241234146573609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-52898713670934624092007-02-07T11:30:00.000-07:002007-02-07T11:30:00.000-07:00Thank you all for putting me straight on the ex-De...Thank you all for putting me straight on the ex-Delta Center funding. I'm interested in truth, not in simply grinding an axe.<br /><br />I think I have a little less indigestion about the stadium issue since the state is simply acting as a leaseholder. There is always risk involved in such a position, but perhaps when potential alternative uses are considered, the risk isn't so bad. There are some examples of how this kind of thing has turned out well. Of course, there are some unfortunate examples as well.<br /><br />As far as the TRT not being able to be used for anything else, I think I addressed that issue. It's an accounting gimick. At the end of the day, the state has one huge bucket of money. Yes, we have rules in place about which funding sources can be used for which expenditures, but since there are factors that fall in the overlap and marginal areas of all of these various rules, enough funds can flow between different buckets to the effect that using funds here still means you can't use them elsewhere and cannot fund a TRT decrease.<br /><br />Also my comment contrasting athletic entertainment with education and transportation was not dealing with accounting. It was a moral valuation in response to Alien Wannabe's thoughts on the matter.<br /><br />"Extension" is an interesting euphamism for a tax increase (which is the same as refusing a decrease). And although some of this tax would be paid by non-residents, I'm not sure that makes it right.<br /><br />In the end, I'm still not convinced that this falls within the definition of good government.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-17296363707932901682007-02-07T10:45:00.000-07:002007-02-07T10:45:00.000-07:00Sorry for the repetition, looks like some other in...Sorry for the repetition, looks like some other informed tax payers beat me to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-75933436810012610252007-02-07T10:44:00.000-07:002007-02-07T10:44:00.000-07:00Well written, but you have several facts just plai...Well written, but you have several facts just plain wrong. Most notably, Larry Miller DID get public money for the Delta Center. Almost the exact amount that RSL is getting (in today's dollars). Funny how the media has tried to keep that quiet, no? Also, the TRT money CANNOT be used for education or transportation, ONLY for projects relating to tourism and the like. Once you see those facts, it starts to make a lot more sense, but "sense" doesn't necessarily sell papers, so most people haven't heard the truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-20998360730798486722007-02-07T10:43:00.000-07:002007-02-07T10:43:00.000-07:00Larry Miller DID get public funding for the Delta ...Larry Miller DID get public funding for the Delta Center/ESA.<br />It says so right on the Delta Center/ESA Web page. In the first paragraph actually. http://www.energysolutionsarena.com/historyArena.cfm<br />What do you think Redevelopment Agency funds are?<br /><br />The money is not being DIVERTED from anything. The money would not exist if it were not for the extension of the Transient Room Tax, that was extended in order to provide funding for the project.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-68813113696052426552007-02-07T10:40:00.000-07:002007-02-07T10:40:00.000-07:00Larry Miller DID get public funding for the ex-Del...Larry Miller DID get public funding for the ex-Delta Center...<br /><br />There was an excellent article re the same yesterday in the Trib.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-9200913590155700882007-02-07T10:27:00.000-07:002007-02-07T10:27:00.000-07:00The state isn't funding the stadium. The state is ...The state isn't funding the stadium. The state is buying the land on which the stadium will be built and then leasing the land to RSL.<br /><br />As Governor Huntsman explained yesterday, "This is an economic development investment in valuable property."<br /><br />http://www.utah.gov/governor/news/2007/news_02_06_07.htmlAreliushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09558814329771725256noreply@blogger.com