tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post7555522957304100436..comments2023-09-11T08:58:24.710-06:00Comments on Reach Upward: How Do We Punish Employers That Hire Illegals?Scott Hinrichshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-45025737930328489612006-12-18T14:54:00.000-07:002006-12-18T14:54:00.000-07:00That is a valid point.That is a valid point.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-13232277659259920222006-12-16T15:42:00.000-07:002006-12-16T15:42:00.000-07:00In order to "control the flow of the criminal elem...In order to "control the flow of the criminal element", you need to actually have a legal flow. If we chose to permit unlimited legal immigration into the United States, the large number of illegal border crossings would disappear. Then we could easily identify the criminals and turn them back or prosecute them.Charles Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02975241234146573609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-30568277552378970432006-12-14T08:38:00.000-07:002006-12-14T08:38:00.000-07:00P.S. Our current de facto open immigration policy ...P.S. Our current de facto open immigration policy (where enforcement is sparsely and unevenly applied) does an awful job of controlling the flow of the criminal element.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-33107052805070782632006-12-14T08:20:00.000-07:002006-12-14T08:20:00.000-07:00DL, I think we agree. It is not fair to punish th...DL, I think we agree. It is not fair to punish the workers while giving the complicit employers a slap on the wrist. However, our current laws and regulations are designed toward that end.<br /><br />NAA, you make some good points. Throughout the history of this country, those that have opposed immigrants have ultimately ended up on the short end of the political stick. For all that immigration costs us in the short term, history does show that it is a net gain -- by a long shot. That does little to mitigate the short-term growing pains it causes.<br /><br />TOG is himself an immigrant. I am the son of an immigrant. TOG will be the first to tell you that our current immigration laws stink. But he also believes that there is value in making immigration tough, because legal residency and citizenship in this country are of very great value. I am in favor of making it possible to bring in as many as are willing to abide the laws of the land and contribute to our society. However, the screening out of the criminal element is very difficult with more open immigration policies.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-65933758256350705412006-12-13T20:07:00.000-07:002006-12-13T20:07:00.000-07:00Why should anybody be punished? The law is unjust...Why should anybody be punished? The law is unjust and unwise and should be repealed. End illegal immigration by ending the illegality of immigration, let anyone who wants to come and who can show they are not otherwise a criminal enter. This land is God's patrimony to anyone who wants to come here and live a peaceful, productive life -- not just the patrimony of those who made it here one generation or more ago. 99% of us are ultimately immigrants, what makes us any better than the new wave of immigrants? Immigration is the single driving force that has built and is building America. There have also always been people who slandered immigrants and people who used supposed claims of higher principles to mask thinly veiled economic protectionism or prejudices (against Irish Germans, Slavs, Jews, etc. and nowadays Latinos, Indians, Arabs, etc.) The economic literature is equally clear: at worst immigration is a net neutral, but in most studies it is a significant plus. If you really want to see America collapse economically, just enforce the immigration laws as they are now on the books and you'll have economic Armageddon and we'll all be out of work. In the meanwhile, the immigrants are already here at our own invitation whether we admit it or not, I for one prefer to have a system where we don't try to deceive ourselves into claiming otherwise and give them the same fair shake we've all been blessed with. That's the American dream, I'd like to nurture it, not kill it.NonArab-Arabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16983377704212047641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-17156750123625067842006-12-13T18:10:00.000-07:002006-12-13T18:10:00.000-07:00So the workers are locked up and deported, but "it...So the workers are locked up and deported, but "it's not clear whether Swift will face any kind of civil or criminal prosecution." That's fair - NOT!<br /><br />Failing to punish the employer or giving them a virtual slap on the wrist is certainly not going to slow down the tide of immigrants. They are coming here to find work and as long as they are successful they will keep coming. The workers are motivated by the need to support their families - put food on the table and a roof over their heads. The corporations are motivated by greed - they get cheap employees who cannot afford to complain about anything and are impervious to union organizing and they pocket the savings. <br /><br />If either party has an ethical defense it is the worker. Punishing both parties equally would be fair though. Let's deport the workers and revoke the corporate charter of Swift and sell their assets to the highest bidder.Charles Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02975241234146573609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-70566235355441760402006-12-13T11:50:00.000-07:002006-12-13T11:50:00.000-07:00I find it interesting that there is strong public ...I find it interesting that there is strong public sentiment against improving government-sponsored ID systems. Americans have harbored a certain level of distrust of government since our nation's inception. Orwell's Big Brother (from his novel <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four">1984</a>) resonates very well in the American psyche.<br /><br />We largely seem not to mind improvement of ID systems in the marketplace and to a certain extent in business, but perhaps that is because participation in these is at least somewhat optional. We distrust big business, but seem to trust market forces far more.<br /><br />Common sense should dictate that we need modernized, bulletproof government ID systems. But it seems that Americans distrust government enough to accept the risks and inconveniences of not doing so.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-43812699598814241372006-12-13T11:23:00.000-07:002006-12-13T11:23:00.000-07:00Indeed, it's going to be a jumbled mess, with mult...Indeed, it's going to be a jumbled mess, with multifacets everywhere... leaving this to the states will make oversight a nightmare. FEDERALLY, there needs to be some major overhaul of ID systems, and their verification/implimentation in the workplace. <br /><br />Then there needs to be tough penalties for those who overstep them. Both employers and employees.<br /><br />The damage currently being perceived here is only the tip of the real iceberg, one that nobody really wants to see in its entirety.That One Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02733838946095632239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-82496430632117306002006-12-13T10:47:00.000-07:002006-12-13T10:47:00.000-07:00The trouble with the SSN verification is that the ...The trouble with the SSN verification is that the illegals have gotten smart enough to use SSNs of people with similar names and ages. They simply co-opt the legal person's birthdate. Then when the employer makes the call, everything appears to be on the up and up.<br /><br />Sometimes illegals are duped into believing that the process they have gone through pretty much makes them legal. IRS has a problem with this when well-intentioned illegals file tax returns for the work they have done. IRS also has problems when the W-2s for an illegal don't show up on the tax return for the legal resident whose SSN they are using. It creates a confusing mess as to whom is whom and who is the legal owner of the SSN and who isn't.<br /><br />The SSN verification thing sounds good, but in reality it is far messier than its promoters admit.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10424035.post-67257079760635125012006-12-13T10:13:00.000-07:002006-12-13T10:13:00.000-07:00Congress has already demonstrated an unwillingness...Congress has already demonstrated an unwillingness to get tougher on the kind of ID theft encompassed by illegal workers, so I think it's up to the states. As a condition of getting a business license, they should all be required to verify the owner of a SSN before it can be used. There's already a <a href="http://www.usatrace.com/SShowto.html">hotline </a> to do this with, but it's totally voluntary. If we make it mandatory, it introduces more risk for illegal workers and helps thwart ID theft.Jesse Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11468928702710912142noreply@blogger.com